Dig Your Grave for Me, Would You?

Hadison:  Very well, Socrato - I'll step in your sophisticated trap and agree to the fact that all human action is an expression of belief.

Socrato:  Why pretend do agree if you do not actually agree, friend?

Hadison:  I know your verbal arrows and poisons well and can see that you will get me to agree anyhow.

Socrato:  And how will I do that?

Hadison:  Ha!  So you'll make me do the work for you, despite the fact that I was willing to give this piece?  Very well.  You'd say something like: is not the eating of breakfast in the morning an expression of the will to live?

Socrato:  Any meal, in fact, is such.

Hadison:  And is not the act of exchanging one's labor for money an expression of the belief that it must be done?

Socrato:  Yes.  Even if the laborer is unconscious of their belief, by freely accepting the currency, they are endorsing the system of payment for labor.

Hadison:  And is it not true that engaging in the hobby of wood carving is an expression of the belief that it is a valuable use of time?

Socrato:  Perhaps.  It could be an expression of the belief that the practice of such a hobby may be a good way to cement friendships.

Hadison:  Of course.  All my best friends come from wood shop class.

Socrato:  Very well.  So we agree that action is an expression of belief.

Hadison:  Yes.  So what's that got to do with your over arching value, that people exist to share philosophical ideas?

Socrato:  What are philosophical ideas?

Hadison:  Theories of what, why and how.

Socrato:  And what are beliefs?

Hadison:  Mostly the same thing I just said, I suppose - theories about the world and how it works.

Socrato:  Indeed.

Robot Heart

Socrato:  Have we already found our shared value then, friend Hadison?

Hadison:  Not to my satisfaction, no.  By your own words, Socrato, I do not think that the dock workers are having a philosophical discussion at all.  They are merely speaking to confirm that they share a mutual interest.

Socrato:  They are indeed only confirming one another, yes.  It is in fact the way that most people speak most of the time.

Hadison:  People speak merely to agree with each other?

Socrato:  This is a fascinating truth... but let us not stray far from our task: to find a common value amongst all sane adult citizens so that we may construct the best form of government possible.

Hadison:  And could you be so kind as to restate your proposal for a common value, Socrato?  I feel perhaps I have lost it.

Socrato:  Indeed, friend Hadsion, indeed.  I may not have made myself clear in my declaration.  I believe that the value we seek is in fact a desire to be able to share philosophically with other human beings.

Hadison:  Ah.  You say share instead of discuss.  Very clever.

Socrato:  It is not cleverness but truth that leads me to phrase my proposal this way.

Hadison:  Please go on explaining to me how it is the truth.

Socrato:  All human action is merely an expression of belief, yes?

Hadison:  Even the beating of my heart?  How can that be an expression of belief?

Socrato:  That is not a human action but merely a process of the body.

Hadison:  Ah.  So by action you must then mean conscious action?

Socrato:  Indeed.

Did You See the Metaphysics Game Last Night?

Hadison:  And how do we produce this sample?

Socrato:  We deduce it by logic.

Hadison:  Because it would be impossible to actually ask everyone what they value, right?

Socrato:  Indeed.

Hadison:  I see.  So where do we begin?

Socrato:  Let us begin with what you value.

Hadison:  Why not with what you value, Socrato?

Socrato:  Very well.  I value the freedom to share philosophically with other people.

Hadison:  And do you think most people share that value?

Socrato:  Absolutely.

Hadison:  You think the dock workers treasure their ability to discuss the nature of the universe while the unload crates of cod?

Socrato:  They may be more likely to discuss the results of last weeks gladitorial games.

Hadison:  So then, this is not the shared value we seek.

Socrato:  I disagree.  When dockworkers speak with one another of wins, losses and fight strategies they are confirming one another's philosophical systems.

Hadison:  So it is the shared value we seek?

Socrato:  While I may savor philosophical sparring, many people enjoy philosophical reinforcement.

Hadison:  Which is what, sir?

Socrato:  Talking about things that they know the other person will agree with.

Hadison:  I see.

Ice Cream Soup

Hadison:  So what is value, dear Socrato?

Socrato: Value is what people want out of life.

Hadison:  But there are so many different people and many seem to be at odds in their desires.  Certainly there are many different values and not just one over-arching value.

Socrato:  Perhaps.  But what if we could find one value that all people shared?  Would that not be of supreme importance when considering the ideal form of government?

Hadison:  Maybe... It could turn out that the only thing that everyone values is breathing or eating ice cream.  That doesn't seem like it would be useful at all.

Socrato:  You're right, friend Hadison.  We need something of philosophical substance.

Hadison:  Okay, I'm ready to build the ideal government.  What's the substantive philosophical concept that all people share?

Socrato:  Let's be careful.  No doubt there will be a few outliers who will be at odds with everyone else.  We'll have to agree to not factor in their opinions.

Hadison:  And who would those poor uncounted fools be, Socrato?

Socrato:  I think we can agree that the opinions of very young children shouldn't factor in to our discussion of value.

Hadison:  Because they haven't had enough time to be indoctrinated?

Socrato:  No, because they do not have a deep enough grasp of the world to make any serious philosophical judgements about what is valueable.

Hadison:  I see.  And who else shall we exclude?

Socrato:  I should think that the opinions of insane people should be excluded from our discussion.

Hadison:  Because they don't agree with us?

Socrato:  No, because they don't see the actual world but instead perceive some world constructed partially or entirely in their minds.  Since they don't live in the same world as we do, their opinions about value are irrelevant to the discussion.

Hadison:  I see.  Will there be anyone else left out of our consensus stew?

Socrato:  I think it is best that we take as wide a sample as possible.  

Perfectly Maximizing the Good

Rockamellon:  Do you mean let us see what he thinks value is?

Socrato:  Indeed.

Socrato:  Hail, friend Hadison.

Hadison:  And hail to you friends Socrato and Rockamellon.

Rockamellon:  Good to see you, friend.

Socrato:  Rockamellon and I were just discussing the ideal form of government.

Hadison:  Ah!  What an interesting topic.  Please tell me... for I have quite a vested interest in knowing... what did you come up with and I will deliver this revelation it to my friends in the chambers with great haste.

Socrato:  Well, we had to set it aside actually and talk about value.

Hadison:  That is disappointing.  But did you return to the subject of government after your derailment over value?

Socrato:  We were hoping that you could get us back on track, actually.

Hadison:  I'll do what I can.

Socrato:  We think that if we can discover the truth of value then coming up with the ideal form of government should follow easily.

Hadison:  I'm not sure I see how it would follow so easily, Socrato.

Rockamellon:  Neither am I.

Socrato:  Well, if we can determine what value is, then government can be turned to maximize value, yes?

Hadison:  I see.

Rockamellon:  This sounds like a most interesting proposition, Socrato.

Socrato:  Then let us proceed, friends.

He shoots... he truths!

Rockamellon:  So it is resolved then?

Socrato:  What is resolved?

Rockamelon:  The truth.  Have we discovered that there is no value in the world except that which can be assigned a monetary value?

Socrato:  Are you satisfied with what we have found?

Rockamellon:  If I, as per your recommendation, stifle my opinion, Socrato - then yes, I feel that we have indeed arrived at the truth that money is the only measure of value in the world.  Are you satisfied?

Socrato:  No.  Let us see if we can make the value something else.

Rockamellon:  I don't follow you.

Socrato:  Let us go find someone else to draw into our conversation and in so doing, let us reveal some new truth to them.

Rockamellon:  Is there not but one truth of each matter, Socrato?  If we have uncovered money is the answer the will not money always be the answer?

Socrato:  Will our truth not be all the more truthful if we confirm it with someone else, Rockamellon?

Rockamellon:  I suppose so but from the way you spoke of our search you made it sound as though you wanted the truth to be something else.

Socrato:  Are you, once again, accusing me of having an agenda?  A truth bending agenda?  To what end would I, as a lover of wisdom, seek to bend the truth?

Rockamellon:  I know not... unless perhaps you think there is some truth behind bending the truth.

Socrato:  That sounds like a most interesting discussion, friend Rockamellon.  But let us save it for another time for here I see our mutual friend Hadison.  Let us see what he thinks of value.

Lead the Follower

Rockamellon:  Hermithood does not sound like a subject for a marketable book.

Socrato:  The world is filled with many different kind of readers, friend.

Rockamellon:  But, according to your agenda, only one kind of value - money.

Socrato:  It worries me that you think I am bending the discussion to a particular end.

Rockamellon:  And yet here we are: love, family and philosophy have all been reduced to numbers on a balance sheet.

Socrato:  That is where the logic has led us.

Rockamellon:  So you keep saying but it takes a man to apply logic, does it not?

Socrato:  As I have seen it so far in my life, yes.

Rockamellon:  And is not every man subject to his own emotions and biases?

Socrato:  Certainly every man I have encountered has prejudices, yes.  But if I may anticipate where you are leading us then may I point out that in a philosophical discussion one is supposed to put these preferences aside and try to get at the truth.

Rockamellon:  One is supposed to, yes.  But can it be done?

Socrato:  Have you ever seen me enter into a discussion and come out with an answer that is directly at odds with the opinion I possessed before the discussion.

Rockamellon:  You mean have I ever seen you lose a discussion?

Socrato:  No, that is not what I mean.  I mean to say that truth is the only goal in a philosophical dialog.

Rockamellon:  Please explain that statement, Socrato.

Socrato:  Gladly.  The philosopher is, literally, a lover of wisdom - not opinion, either his own or anyone else's.  Opinion, belief and winning are irrelevant.  The discussion is aimed at revealing the truth, no matter what the cost to anyone's ego.

Rockamellon:  I see.  Perhaps it is truly wise to have no opinion at all.

Socrato:  That, my friend Rockamellon, sounds like wisdom.